The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen “Breadman” Edwards tackling topics such as Jermell Charlo vs. Tim Tszyu, Canelo Alvarez vs. Gennadiy Golovkin, Rey Vargas’ title win, Ryan Garcia vs. Javier Fortuna, and more.
Hope all is well with you and yours. Say the comment on Inoue having yet to pass the test of fighting an urban black fighter. I believe that’s what you said. Inoue has responded to you using a Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes song. If you don’t know me by now, you will never never, never know me.
Bread’s Response: Know what exactly, how Inoue will do with a black American fighter as good as Stephen Fulton who is about 10lbs naturally heavier, 2 inches taller and longer? No, I don’t know!
Let me tell you something. You heard what Eddy Reynoso said about black fighter. “Black fighters are hard to deal with.”
If you ever heard matchmakers talk you would hear them talk about race and region. But that’s not a conversation you can take, obviously.
I’m not saying Inoue can’t deal with a black American fighter. I’m saying we haven’t seen him do it. And I’m not in the business of giving someone credit for something they haven’t done.
For the record I’m an Inoue guy. He may be the best fighter in the world. He’s certainly the best puncher in the world. But Inoue started out at 108lbs. Fulton started out at 122lbs. That’s 14lbs! So this isn’t a P4P ranking and hypothetical match up. This is a literal match up. And it’s a tough fight for both. You may not like my reasoning but I’m just saying what others say off the record.
Do you get upset at judges scoring too many even rounds? I certainly do. Chisora-Pulev was incredibly close and either one could have won that fight. But 116-114? That’s a joke of a scorecard. That judge scored two rounds even. 17-percent of the entire fight he found too close to differentiate in scoring. Anyone off the street could watch a close round of boxing and decide it’s too close to call. That’s why there’s professional judges. They’re supposed to be better than an average sports fan. Over three minutes of boxing, there’s something to pick and choose from if you’re a professional and know what you’re doing. I think it’s time to do away with the 10-10 round. I know it serves a purpose. I’m sure you’ll immediately point to a round in boxing history that was obviously a 10-10 round and all three judges scored it as such. But more often than not, it seems like an excuse for a judge to take a pass on doing his job for a round. I would love to get your take. Thank you as always!
Bread’s Response: Ok….here is my take. Hypothetically what if two fighters simply landed 1 jab apiece throughout a round and absolutely did nothing else. Literally nothing else. Then that’s a 10-10 even round and if scored otherwise it would show favoritism.
So in some cases even rounds are justified. But in 90% of the cases they aren’t. A judge should be able to assess separation. Ring Generalship, Defense, Affective Aggressiveness and Clean Punching.
But judging is not easy. In fact I do a drill in the gym. Where my fighters score the rounds as they box a round robin style tournament where the fighter who wins the round, stays in and the losing fighter gets out of the ring. Often times right after the round, the scoring fighters claim it was close and it’s too hard to call. Obviously they aren’t judges but they’re fighters and you would think they could score a round easier than they do. So it’s not an easy task if the round is competitive. So no I don’t think we can do away with EVEN rounds. But judges can be instructed to try their best to not score even rounds and try to find some sort of separation.
God bless Bread Man,
Hope all is well with you and yours. Looking forward to the Danny Garcia fight at Barclay’s in Brooklyn on July 30th. J rock will also be on the card which is great to hear, but there is another young Philly prospect I wanted to ask you about. Atif Oberlton is also on the card. I remember watching him about a year ago on a PBC card and he was very impressive. He looked like a future champ for sure. Fits the eye test! I believe I’ve never heard you mention him in up and coming Philly prospects. Do you know him ? And how far you think he can go in the light heavyweight division? Keep up the great work.
All the best! Blessings.
Bread’s Response: I know Atif Oberlton. He’s really good. He’s tall. He’s a southpaw. He has fast hands and he’s busy. He also has good conditioning and a high level amateur pedigree. I don’t like to say who WILL be a world champion this early. It’s still very early in his career. Because there is so much that depends on that. How much you improve? Who you get matched with? How much the promoter likes you? How much the networks like you? Who is the champion when you get to the top? So much to consider. But I will say that I think Oberlton will be a top contender and he has a very good chance to win a title in a few years if he keeps progressing.
I know you’re a big basketball fan. So I wanted your take on the Brittney Griner situation and the comparison that if she were Lebron James then she would have been released by now.
Bread’s Response: First off, I want to say that I hope the young lady gets released and gets back to her normal life as soon as possible. Prison is not a good place and I can only imagine what she’s going through. That being said I don’t know enough about the laws in Russia to have too strong of an opinion. I don’t know the case law or what type of oil she had etc. So having an opinion on something I’m not educated on would make me foolish.
As for the Lebron James comparison I didn’t like it. Lebron James is one of the few people who has enough influence and care in his heart to help her get released. So to say if she were him she would have been released was an inappropriate comment. Because James has never went to a foreign country with a prohibited/illegal substance. If he did and received no punishment then I would understand the comparison but it was misplaced especially with him being someone who could possible help her.
But maybe her coach made the comment out of frustration. Sometimes you say things….I’ve said some things in my life out of frustration it happens. Let’s not focus on the comment and focus on getting Griner home to her family.
I saw your comment on Facebook about Spinks and Hagler as far as who was the 2nd best fighter on the 80s? Both you and Frank made compelling arguments. I tend to agree with you though. I would give the slight edge to Hagler. But Frank almost turned me. You should start a podcast bro, I can listen to you talk all day.
Bread’s Response: Thanks. I would like to start a podcast but I need someone to do the ground work for me. I just don’t have to the time to put everything together but I would love to be a part of one.
Frank Lotierzo is the only person I discuss boxing with on Facebook. He’s very knowledgeable and I definitely was not trying to show him up. I’m a huge Michale Spinks fan. I think he’s criminally underrated. I think him and Hagler are very close in terms of historical status and who had the better decade. But I just disagreed with Frank’s reasoning for Spinks.
Frank thought Spinks had a better decade because he was more versatile as a fighter and he had a better 2 fisted attack. I don’t think that has a bearing on who had a better decade. I think that is more in line as who you prefer as a fighter. But my counter argument was Hagler was just as versatile. Hagler switched stances more. He boxed from the outside. He worked on the inside. He won fights as a boxer. He won them as a puncher. He won them attacking. He won them counter punching. I think Hagler is just as versatile as Spinks.
I did agree with Frank when he said Spinks had a better 2 fisted attack. Spinks’s left hook was murder as was his vaunted right hand. But again that doesn’t determine who had the better decade. We talked about their biggest wins of the decade and I thought it was close. Spinks beat Larry Holmes in one of the most significant wins in history. That was a huge win. But Hagler’s win over a 26 year old Tommy Hearns is on par. Hagler’s performance and game plans was one of the best in history.
Spinks probably beat a better crop of light heavys than Hagler did middleweights. I agree with that. But I think Hagler was the more dominant fighter. Spinks had 2 controversial decisions in the decade vs Eddie Davis and Larry Holmes 2, that many thought he lost. Hagler does not have any controversial wins. He only has a controversial loss to Ray Leonard.
Last but not least Spinks has the bad Tyson loss. I forgive him but if you’re splitting hairs in a close race, that counts. I also know how that during the 80s Hagler was slightly more highly regarded than Spinks. At no time during the decade not even after the Holmes win, was Spinks regarded as a better fighter. It doesn’t mean he wasn’t, but it is relevant to this debate. Hagler was the #1 P4P fighter in the world even while Spinks was having his historical run. So I gave Hagler an ever so slight edge. Honestly I would like to rate them as a push. It’s really that close. Both Hagler and Spinks had terrific runs in the 1980s.
Who would be your pick for Fighter of the Decade if the decade stopped today? Also if both careers stopped today who had the better career Canelo or GGG?
Bread’s Response: If they both stopped today Canelo would have had a better career than GGG. GGG fans will hate me for that but I’m being totally objective. GGG has no official wins over Canelo. He has no wins over any future HOFs. And he’s only won titles at 160lbs. I don’t hold only winning titles at 160lbs against him but historians will. They will also hold it against him he doesn’t have wins over future HOFs. The system of boxing really screwed GGG allowing fighters to duck him and screwing him over in the 1st Canelo fight. But it happened and GGG fans will have to live with it.
It’s too early to have a fighter of the decade. We are only 2 ½ years into the decade. But since you asked it would be Canelo again. I know he just lost but he had the best decade so far. I have to add that it’s not fair to even ask this question this early in the decade. If Usyk beats Joshua and Fury he has the front running case. The winner of Spence vs Crawford will have a big case. Monster Inoue is ascending. Bam Rodriguez will only 30 when the decade is over. I can go on all day about that. So let’s just wait it out before we get into that.
Bread, I’m telling you Jake Paul is going to ko Hasim Rahman Jr. This fight has fix all over it. I know you’re a betting man and this one is an easy call. Rahman is going to take a dive and make Paul look like a legitimate fighter.
Bread’s Response: I don’t know where to start. But that’s a very strong public accusation. As far as I know and I don’t know much, but I think the fight counts on their records and it’s not an exhibition. I could be wrong…. But if I’m correct then it’s illegal to take a dive or fix a fight. So you have to watch your comments.
I haven’t been keeping up with what’s going in the Paul vs Rahman fight. But I did hear a comment that Rahman made. He said that Paul is making him come to Cruiserweight and he made him sign a rehydration clause. Rahman used the term stacking the deck. So to be fair to both, fighters don’t usually stack the deck like that and then ask their opponent to lay down. But who knows……
It’s really a touchy subject because it’s ILLEGAL and it’s a strong accusation. I hope you’re wrong. I also know that Hasim Rahman Jr. has a lot riding on this. If he gets kod by Jake Paul that would be a huge knock on his ability, family name and career. There is a lot of pressure on him. I expect him to give his best effort and try his best. So let’s see what happens and let’s be fair to both gentlemen.
Good call on the Vargas vs Magsayo fight. That was a really good hardcore fight that slipped under the radar. What other fights do you think are sneaking up on us that aren’t getting the press?
Bread’s Response: I just heard that Charlo vs Tszyu is happening. That’s an excellent hardcore match up between an undisputed champion and a real #1 contender. The funny thing about great hardcore fights sometimes they do sneak up on you. So I guess I will have to let another one sneak up on me. I do think the media has been quiet lately on late summer and fall announcements. So I expect some big announcements over the next month. Not sure if they will be hardcore or casual or both. But expect some big announcements. We don’t have anything big that has been announced after September 17th, which is Canelo vs GGG.
Charlo vs Tszyu just got announced for January of 2020. Have you ever seen a fight be announced so far out. Almost 7 months. It ruins Jermell Charlo’s chances to win the Fighter of the Year, which would be huge for his legacy. Who do you like and what are your thoughts on why it’s so far out?
Bread’s Response: That’s a big fight! I love the match up. Right now I favor Charlo by ko. Tszyu is going to have to improve his defense. I assess defense by style. Your defense should be competent according to your style. Tszyu is a pressure attacker. So he doesn’t have fight like Willie Pep. But he has to learn how to catch/parry punches better. Or maybe up his offense to a point where his opponents don’t punch back as often. Unless his chin is made of iron, he’s going to get seriously hurt when he faces an elite offensive fighter.
If Terrell Gausha had a different mentality he could’ve kod Tszyu. Gausha has good skills but he’s REACTIVE as a fighter. He’s not PROACTIVE. Meaning he waits for opponents to do something bad to him before he does something bad to them. There was plenty of HOLES in Tszyu’s attack where Gausha could’ve really got some nice work in up the middle. He landed some good shots but he never really mounted an offense where Tszyu had to regroup because it was always in response to what Tszyu was doing to him. It’s a difference between fighting someone and fighting someone off of you. Gausha was fighting Tszyu off of him.
Charlo has more of an ALPHA offensive attitude in the ring. He’s going to try to knock Tszyu’s head off. Unless Tszyu improves in his attack as far as being more competent defensively, Charlo is going to knock him out from what I can see.
No I’ve never seen a fight announced so far out but maybe they have their reasons. I try not to care about things that aren’t my business. I’m just happy we are getting a big fight. I don’t want to be cynical. There will be other fights to get us to January. There could be multiple reasons if you think open minded.
Maybe Tszyu who is a little green in my opinion needs a little more time. Maybe Derrick James who is also Errol Spence’s trainer, won’t be available until later in the year. If Spence vs Crawford is being negotiated then that makes sense. As a trainer it’s easier to train one fighter at a time. And Spence and Charlo both need their special individual time they have earned and James can only be in one place at a time. Maybe it’s a money thing and there is more money available at the beginning of next year……
Jermell Charlo does have a huge win this year vs Brian Castano. So he had a chance to be fighter of the year. But if he doesn’t want to win it, that’s his prerogative. Again, as fans of boxing, that’s not something I would worry about. Charlo has a choice. He’s the A side so……Again let’s just enjoy the fight when it happens and not try to complain so much.
Hi Mr. Edwards!
I have been following your mailbag for years and want to say that you are my favorite Boxing Analyst online currently. I have 2 questions, though I am unsure if you have answered them in previous mailbags:
1) Who would you say is greater between Juan Manuel Marquez and Oscar De La Hoya in terms of legacy and head-to-head? In terms of head-to-head, who would win at LIGHTWEIGHT and at WELTERWEIGHT?
2) Canelo seems to be acting angry towards GGG at the press conferences. Setting aside the moral question of whether he has grounds to be angry in the first place, would you say that Canelo’s anger would help him focus? I previously worried that Canelo would take GGG lightly since GGG is older. Sort of like a Mike Tyson vs Buster DOuglas situation. However, now that Canelo has a chip on his shoulder after the Bivol defeat, do you think that will help increase Canelo’s performance during Canelo vs GGG 3? On a related note, do you think anger is helpful to favourites in fights they are expected to win? Or do you think it will distract them? Anger helped Canelo in the second GGG fight, but then again Canelo was the underdog in that one.
Bread’s Response: This is a good question. I know Marquez outperformed Oscar vs common opponent Manny Pacquiao but I think Oscar would have beaten Marquez at lightweight and certainly at 147lbs. Oscar is bigger, more athletic and just as skilled. Marquez is a gun and his heart would keep him competitive but I don’t think he could have beaten Oscar. I also think Oscar had a slightly better career.
Oscar won titles from 130-160. Marquez from 126-140. Marquez’s one big win over Manny is huge. But Oscar was undefeated all the way up to 147. It took a controversial decision vs Tito to take his O and a prime Mosley to convincingly take it. As much as I love Marquez’s guts and counter punching. Marquez fought Manny great but he came back down to earth with other fighters.
I don’t think guys like Juan Diaz and Michael Katsidis give Oscar life and death. I don’t think fighters like Chris John, Freddy Norwood and Tim Bradley beat Oscar. They’re all excellent fighters but I feel Oscar would have had the edge over all of them.
Oscar gets underrated as time has passed by. You have to watch Oscar in 95,96 and 97. Oscar was so good, he was a HOF by the time he was 24 years old. He was already a 4 division champion. His 1996 performance vs Chavez looked like he was a Mexican Ray Robinson. Oscar was always the A side and he always fought killers which was his choice. Real killers. He didn’t duck anything. His level of competition is as high as anyone you can name since 1990 including everybody.For as good as Marquez is, remember Oscar is 5’10. He’s quicker. He’s longer. He’s bigger. He hits harder. And they often fought at similar weights. Oscar also has a great chin. Marquez would not beat Oscar. And I think overall Oscar beat better fighters and did a little bit more.
I’m also more comfortable with Oscar vs tricky styles. Oscar can be competitive with the Pernell Whitaker’s and Floyd Mayweather’s. Where as I think Marquez gets outboxed. Oscar also can outbox a Tito Trinidad. Where as I think Marquez would get stopped. If you really look close I think Oscar is the pick for both career and head to head.
In the never ending Canelo vs GGG debate, when I answer in favor of Canelo, GGG’s fans get angry. When I answer in favor of GGG, Canelo’s fans send me hate mail. In this question I will answer in favor of GGG. Canelo’s anger seems manufactured. He’s mad why…..Really if you think about it, it’s because he tested positive. Fighters are crazy and they have to compartmentalize their failures. I get it. I don’t always agree but I get it.
GGG suspected Canelo was using PEDS. So Team GGG insured that Canelo would be tested early. And low and behold he tested positive. And Canelo flips a lid. GGG didn’t conduct the test. If Canelo had no PEDS in his system then it wouldn’t matter what GGG suspected, the test would have been negative. It wouldn’t have mattered if the test were done 6 months before the fight, a clean system is a clean system.
This is equivalent to….. a married couple. One of them suspects the other is cheating, so they look through their significant other’s phone. They find exactly what they suspected. And now the one who was caught cheating is mad that their phone got looked through.
And don’t give me the excuse of what the limits were CHANGED to after the results. During the time of the test, it was prohibited. There are so many things as far as laws and banned things that have been changed through time, but the most important factor is what rules were in place at the time of the test results.
So Canelo is pissed because GGG is not buying his excuse. No opponent would buy that excuse. In fact GGG has already signed up for testing early in this fight and he has every right to. It’s obvious he doesn’t trust Canelo. So that seems to anger Canelo. It’s ridiculous in my opinion but…..it’s how some people are wired.
To Canelo’s credit, GGG claimed Canelo ran in the 1st fight. Well Canelo stepped right to him in the rematch and attacked him. Canelo was a GUN for that. And I Love what he did. He shut GGG up about that Mexican style claim because he fought how GGG how he claimed he wouldn’t.
So in that case anger favored Canelo. Attacking fighters, with big time chins can fight angry. It’s fighters who are chinny and should be boxing discipline who can’t afford to fight angry. Or fighters who can’t catch a 2nd wind and get upset. So in this case although I don’t agree with Canelo reasoning, I don’t think anger effects his style vs GGG.
Who do you favor in the Ryan Garcia vs Javier Fortuna fight? I smell an upset. Garcia seems to be a protected social media fighter. They seem to be fattening him up for Tank Davis but I don’t think he’s going to Davis.
Bread’s Response: Javier Fortuna is a southpaw. Tank Davis is a southpaw. This is good matchmaking. It gives Garcia a chance to have 2 camps preparing for Tank. I don’t smell an upset. I think Garcia is very talented. I love his punch delivery. I don’t like how it’s taking him to fight for a title but that doesn’t take away from his talent. Fortuna is a very good fighter and I was really impressed with his performance vs Robert Easter. He boxed really well in that fight and had a real case for winning. But I think his time has passed. I think he was picked for a reason. If Garcia doesn’t win this fight he’s in trouble in his career as far as being an elite fighter. This is the type of fight, elite talented stars look great in. So again if he can’t win a fight like this, look for him to be matched brutally tough afterwards because building him up wouldn’t be worth the investment anymore. I’ve seen this match up hundreds of times and if you’re a stud you come through with a big time performance. His promoter Oscar De La Hoya had about 5 of these type of fights coming up and most times he scored spectacular kos.
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